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	<title>Comments on: So You Want a PhD in Accounting?</title>
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	<link>http://fasri.net/index.php/2010/01/so-you-want-a-phd-in-accounting/</link>
	<description>Informing FASB Deliberations Through Academic Research</description>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Bentley</title>
		<link>http://fasri.net/index.php/2010/01/so-you-want-a-phd-in-accounting/comment-page-1/#comment-7694</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Bentley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 May 2010 02:06:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fasri.net/?p=2004#comment-7694</guid>
		<description>@Big 4 Auditor,

I think in general PhD programs do place value on being a CPA and work experience in general. However, I don&#039;t think they are very concerned with individual scores on the CPA exam (I don&#039;t remember seeing any question addressing CPA exam scores on any of my PhD applications). The exam score they do care about is the GMAT. As one of my professors put it, the GMAT is the lens through which everything else on the application is evaluated. 

The &lt;a href=http://aaahq.org/temp/phd/StudyMaterials/index.htm rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;AAA&lt;/href&gt; (referred to in an earlier comment I made) has a compilation of surveys that may prove useful to you. It&#039;s a little bit dated (2007), but provides some information on what various schools expect from applicants. Some schools place a lot of value on work experience while others say it is &quot;Not required, but considered.&quot; If you feel it is one of your strong points, talk it up in your letter of intent. In particular, relate how and why your experience as an auditor has made you decide to do a PhD and how it will help in your research.

Most programs don&#039;t require a MAcc, but rather are concerned about a student&#039;s math and economics background. Your double major will probably be seen as a very positive thing. 

That&#039;s my perspective as someone who just finished the application process. Hopefully someone on the other end of the process can address your questions from that perspective as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Big 4 Auditor,</p>
<p>I think in general PhD programs do place value on being a CPA and work experience in general. However, I don&#8217;t think they are very concerned with individual scores on the CPA exam (I don&#8217;t remember seeing any question addressing CPA exam scores on any of my PhD applications). The exam score they do care about is the GMAT. As one of my professors put it, the GMAT is the lens through which everything else on the application is evaluated. </p>
<p>The <a href=http://aaahq.org/temp/phd/StudyMaterials/index.htm rel="nofollow">AAA (referred to in an earlier comment I made) has a compilation of surveys that may prove useful to you. It&#8217;s a little bit dated (2007), but provides some information on what various schools expect from applicants. Some schools place a lot of value on work experience while others say it is &#8220;Not required, but considered.&#8221; If you feel it is one of your strong points, talk it up in your letter of intent. In particular, relate how and why your experience as an auditor has made you decide to do a PhD and how it will help in your research.</p>
<p>Most programs don&#8217;t require a MAcc, but rather are concerned about a student&#8217;s math and economics background. Your double major will probably be seen as a very positive thing. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s my perspective as someone who just finished the application process. Hopefully someone on the other end of the process can address your questions from that perspective as well.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Big 4 Auditor</title>
		<link>http://fasri.net/index.php/2010/01/so-you-want-a-phd-in-accounting/comment-page-1/#comment-7606</link>
		<dc:creator>Big 4 Auditor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Apr 2010 18:33:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fasri.net/?p=2004#comment-7606</guid>
		<description>Rob, I just came across this site and found it very interesting.  I&#039;ve been looking into the possibility of pursuing a Phd in accounting for several months now and I&#039;m trying to read as much as I can from other people thinking about the same thing. I&#039;m in my first year of auditing for a big 4 and know it&#039;s not something I&#039;m wanting to try and do as a career.  What do you think are the chances of getting into a Phd program without a MAcc?  I chose to stay in undergrad to get a duel degree in accounting and economics rather than get the MAcc.  Also, how do you think Phd programs value having a CPA/an individuals scores on the exam?  I received scores of: FAR-86; AUD-96; REG-98; BEC-93 and am wondering if these would be of any value to a Phd admissions board.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob, I just came across this site and found it very interesting.  I&#8217;ve been looking into the possibility of pursuing a Phd in accounting for several months now and I&#8217;m trying to read as much as I can from other people thinking about the same thing. I&#8217;m in my first year of auditing for a big 4 and know it&#8217;s not something I&#8217;m wanting to try and do as a career.  What do you think are the chances of getting into a Phd program without a MAcc?  I chose to stay in undergrad to get a duel degree in accounting and economics rather than get the MAcc.  Also, how do you think Phd programs value having a CPA/an individuals scores on the exam?  I received scores of: FAR-86; AUD-96; REG-98; BEC-93 and am wondering if these would be of any value to a Phd admissions board.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Taylor</title>
		<link>http://fasri.net/index.php/2010/01/so-you-want-a-phd-in-accounting/comment-page-1/#comment-6086</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 04:47:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fasri.net/?p=2004#comment-6086</guid>
		<description>My advice is not to take the PhD lightly. A PhD in Accounting is not an advanced MBA.  It is a PhD in Economics applied to a specific area. At most top schools you will be taking classes along side Economics and Finance PhDs. In fact you take the same core classes as they do...so be prepared to work. If you think you can do a 9-5 day in the PhD program, you are fooling yourself. 

I don&#039;t want to scare anyone away. You just have to be determined and you have to love it. If you love it and you are a hard-worker, you should be able to overcome any deficit in your background.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My advice is not to take the PhD lightly. A PhD in Accounting is not an advanced MBA.  It is a PhD in Economics applied to a specific area. At most top schools you will be taking classes along side Economics and Finance PhDs. In fact you take the same core classes as they do&#8230;so be prepared to work. If you think you can do a 9-5 day in the PhD program, you are fooling yourself. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t want to scare anyone away. You just have to be determined and you have to love it. If you love it and you are a hard-worker, you should be able to overcome any deficit in your background.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Bloomfield</title>
		<link>http://fasri.net/index.php/2010/01/so-you-want-a-phd-in-accounting/comment-page-1/#comment-6061</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Bloomfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:18:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fasri.net/?p=2004#comment-6061</guid>
		<description>@staff accountant,

Absolutely.  By the end of a PhD program, I think most accounting students will have had the equivalent of 3 semesters of calculus (multivariate calculus) and a semester of linear algebra, often all packaged in the form of a PhD course in &quot;math for economists&quot;). 

This math background is used to help the student through a semester or two of calc-based economics, two semesters of calc-based basic statistics, and then some additional statistics courses that will depend on your interests (experimental design, econometrics, time series).

You don&#039;t need to have learned this math before you get to the program, but you do need to demonstrate that you can learn it.  If you did well in a year of calculus, that is a good sign.

Those who have the opportunity might consider taking a course in calculus or calc-based stats or econ before they apply.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@staff accountant,</p>
<p>Absolutely.  By the end of a PhD program, I think most accounting students will have had the equivalent of 3 semesters of calculus (multivariate calculus) and a semester of linear algebra, often all packaged in the form of a PhD course in &#8220;math for economists&#8221;). </p>
<p>This math background is used to help the student through a semester or two of calc-based economics, two semesters of calc-based basic statistics, and then some additional statistics courses that will depend on your interests (experimental design, econometrics, time series).</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t need to have learned this math before you get to the program, but you do need to demonstrate that you can learn it.  If you did well in a year of calculus, that is a good sign.</p>
<p>Those who have the opportunity might consider taking a course in calculus or calc-based stats or econ before they apply.</p>
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		<title>By: staff accountant</title>
		<link>http://fasri.net/index.php/2010/01/so-you-want-a-phd-in-accounting/comment-page-1/#comment-6050</link>
		<dc:creator>staff accountant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 19:24:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fasri.net/?p=2004#comment-6050</guid>
		<description>Rob, you stress math as being extremely important. I am a year out of undergrad, currently working in Big 4, tax.  I&#039;m interested in doing behavioral tax and financial accounting research (tax planning across states, tax planning as provision for income taxes vs. actually minimizing tax liability, and pension reporting&#039;s effects on securities pricing, among others). I have excellent credentials (including GMAT) in every area but college math/econometrics. I only took a year of calculus and a quarter of statistics, B&#039;s and an A. Is a PhD in accounting something that I can realistically pursue?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob, you stress math as being extremely important. I am a year out of undergrad, currently working in Big 4, tax.  I&#8217;m interested in doing behavioral tax and financial accounting research (tax planning across states, tax planning as provision for income taxes vs. actually minimizing tax liability, and pension reporting&#8217;s effects on securities pricing, among others). I have excellent credentials (including GMAT) in every area but college math/econometrics. I only took a year of calculus and a quarter of statistics, B&#8217;s and an A. Is a PhD in accounting something that I can realistically pursue?</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Bloomfield</title>
		<link>http://fasri.net/index.php/2010/01/so-you-want-a-phd-in-accounting/comment-page-1/#comment-5809</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Bloomfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 12:27:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fasri.net/?p=2004#comment-5809</guid>
		<description>All else equal, better work experience is surely a plus, helping students ask better questions as researchers, and eventually be better and more credible teachers at top MBA programs.  

But rarely is all else equal.  People who choose to go directly into graduate school often have a real interest in research, and a pretty solid background in math (otherwise they probably would have sought a traditional job out of undergrad).  

Ultimately, there are many ways to be successful in academia, and many ways to get into a PhD program.  If there were a lot of Wall Street managing directors who kept up with calculus and econometrics, and were willing to earn $20K/year for 5 years while studying research techniques that apply to extremely narrow issues, they would be hard to compete against.  But there are probably only a few of those every year, leaving plenty of spots for everyone else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All else equal, better work experience is surely a plus, helping students ask better questions as researchers, and eventually be better and more credible teachers at top MBA programs.  </p>
<p>But rarely is all else equal.  People who choose to go directly into graduate school often have a real interest in research, and a pretty solid background in math (otherwise they probably would have sought a traditional job out of undergrad).  </p>
<p>Ultimately, there are many ways to be successful in academia, and many ways to get into a PhD program.  If there were a lot of Wall Street managing directors who kept up with calculus and econometrics, and were willing to earn $20K/year for 5 years while studying research techniques that apply to extremely narrow issues, they would be hard to compete against.  But there are probably only a few of those every year, leaving plenty of spots for everyone else.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Bentley</title>
		<link>http://fasri.net/index.php/2010/01/so-you-want-a-phd-in-accounting/comment-page-1/#comment-5805</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Bentley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 00:38:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fasri.net/?p=2004#comment-5805</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve asked the same questions as I&#039;ve prepared to enter a PhD program. Most professors I&#039;ve talked to have encouraged me to go straight into a PhD program and not try for any work experience. Two arguments seem to stand out. (1) If you work for a couple of years first, it&#039;s much harder to go back to school and a student lifestyle and budget. (2) By the time you finish your PhD, any work experience you may have will be outdated anyway.

That being said, it is intimidating to know that I&#039;m competing for slots with people who have several years of experience and may even come with funding (e.g. &lt;a href=http://www.adsphd.org/faq.asp rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;ADS scholars&lt;/a&gt;).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve asked the same questions as I&#8217;ve prepared to enter a PhD program. Most professors I&#8217;ve talked to have encouraged me to go straight into a PhD program and not try for any work experience. Two arguments seem to stand out. (1) If you work for a couple of years first, it&#8217;s much harder to go back to school and a student lifestyle and budget. (2) By the time you finish your PhD, any work experience you may have will be outdated anyway.</p>
<p>That being said, it is intimidating to know that I&#8217;m competing for slots with people who have several years of experience and may even come with funding (e.g. <a href=http://www.adsphd.org/faq.asp rel="nofollow">ADS scholars</a>).</p>
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		<title>By: Bradley Lail</title>
		<link>http://fasri.net/index.php/2010/01/so-you-want-a-phd-in-accounting/comment-page-1/#comment-5801</link>
		<dc:creator>Bradley Lail</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jan 2010 15:25:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fasri.net/?p=2004#comment-5801</guid>
		<description>Interesting to see that according to Rob many new applicants are coming from Wall Street.

I&#039;m curious about others&#039; thoughts on the role of experience prior to pursuing a Ph.D.  I realize most of these posts have been directed towards the positioning of applicants as opposed to qualifications, yet I always find this an interesting conversation given it would appear (prior to this year) the influx of applicants in recent years to my knowledge are applying without ever working outside of academia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting to see that according to Rob many new applicants are coming from Wall Street.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m curious about others&#8217; thoughts on the role of experience prior to pursuing a Ph.D.  I realize most of these posts have been directed towards the positioning of applicants as opposed to qualifications, yet I always find this an interesting conversation given it would appear (prior to this year) the influx of applicants in recent years to my knowledge are applying without ever working outside of academia.</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa Koonce</title>
		<link>http://fasri.net/index.php/2010/01/so-you-want-a-phd-in-accounting/comment-page-1/#comment-5797</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa Koonce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 22:42:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fasri.net/?p=2004#comment-5797</guid>
		<description>I guess the tailoring thing doesn&#039;t bother me as much.  But i agree, it seems trivial ... do it right, why don&#039;t you.

I think our top issues are:  Good quant and equally good verbal on the GMAT.  OFten they are so far apart (with verbal too low).  We are looking at 45 for minimum verbal and 50 quant.  THis field is all about writing and communicating, in my opinion. 

Good knowledge of what you are getting into.  

These are not the only things, of course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess the tailoring thing doesn&#8217;t bother me as much.  But i agree, it seems trivial &#8230; do it right, why don&#8217;t you.</p>
<p>I think our top issues are:  Good quant and equally good verbal on the GMAT.  OFten they are so far apart (with verbal too low).  We are looking at 45 for minimum verbal and 50 quant.  THis field is all about writing and communicating, in my opinion. </p>
<p>Good knowledge of what you are getting into.  </p>
<p>These are not the only things, of course.</p>
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		<title>By: David Wood</title>
		<link>http://fasri.net/index.php/2010/01/so-you-want-a-phd-in-accounting/comment-page-1/#comment-5794</link>
		<dc:creator>David Wood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 18:06:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fasri.net/?p=2004#comment-5794</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the publicity!  Rob, the website is still a work in process, but we are getting closer to finished.  We&#039;ve found the website works well for recruiting future students.  We can email the link out to our undergrad/masters students so they think a bit about the academic lifestyle and have some basic questions answered before visiting with us.  

Check back on the website periodically.  We are working on adding video and several other useful tools.  If you have any suggestions, please let me know.  Also, we will integrate it with the research paper that Jeremy mentioned to provide (hopefully) a good set of information to potential students on which program best fits them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the publicity!  Rob, the website is still a work in process, but we are getting closer to finished.  We&#8217;ve found the website works well for recruiting future students.  We can email the link out to our undergrad/masters students so they think a bit about the academic lifestyle and have some basic questions answered before visiting with us.  </p>
<p>Check back on the website periodically.  We are working on adding video and several other useful tools.  If you have any suggestions, please let me know.  Also, we will integrate it with the research paper that Jeremy mentioned to provide (hopefully) a good set of information to potential students on which program best fits them.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Bentley</title>
		<link>http://fasri.net/index.php/2010/01/so-you-want-a-phd-in-accounting/comment-page-1/#comment-5793</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Bentley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 16:52:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fasri.net/?p=2004#comment-5793</guid>
		<description>Just having finished the application process myself, I completely agree with Rob&#039;s comments on researching the schools. I&#039;ll offer the approach I took for those trying to figure out their own approach for next year.

1. Get into the research. Read a couple issues of TAR, JAR, JAE, CAR, etc. Read the abstracts of everything. If a paper sounds interesting, keep reading. Keep track of the papers you thought were interesting and try to figure out what topical areas (e.g. financial, audit, tax, managerial, systems) you are interested in, and what methodology (e.g. archival, experimental, analytical) you enjoy the most.

2. After you choose what research type you want to do, make a list of schools that match. Take a look at &lt;a href=http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1337755 rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; this paper&lt;/a&gt; to help in that process. It ranks schools according to publications by each topic and methodology. The authors are currently working on an interactive website that will make searching even easier. The AAA put together &lt;a href=http://aaahq.org/temp/phd/StudyMaterials/index.htm rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; some information&lt;/a&gt; that may help as well. It&#039;s a couple of years old, but it certainly helped me. It gives average GMATs, graduation rates, placement, and other useful information about each school.

3. Once you have a list of schools you are interested in, dive in. Find out about the professors. I signed up for RSS feeds from SSRN for prominent professors at several of my top schools. Research what the program entails: expectations, location, admission criteria, deadlines, coursework, etc. Talk to people from those schools. I had the opportunity to attend a research symposium as I began my application process. I made a point to attend presentations by people affiliated with schools I was interested in. Try to get a feel for the culture. Is it an on-your-own type school or a work-together type school? Which type of person are you? Talk to faculty at your school and ask their opinions.

4. Even after all is said and done, keep the list of schools that you originally made. Realize that you may be going through the same process in 5 years as you try to find your first job. 

That&#039;s my two cents anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just having finished the application process myself, I completely agree with Rob&#8217;s comments on researching the schools. I&#8217;ll offer the approach I took for those trying to figure out their own approach for next year.</p>
<p>1. Get into the research. Read a couple issues of TAR, JAR, JAE, CAR, etc. Read the abstracts of everything. If a paper sounds interesting, keep reading. Keep track of the papers you thought were interesting and try to figure out what topical areas (e.g. financial, audit, tax, managerial, systems) you are interested in, and what methodology (e.g. archival, experimental, analytical) you enjoy the most.</p>
<p>2. After you choose what research type you want to do, make a list of schools that match. Take a look at <a href=http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1337755 rel="nofollow"> this paper</a> to help in that process. It ranks schools according to publications by each topic and methodology. The authors are currently working on an interactive website that will make searching even easier. The AAA put together <a href=http://aaahq.org/temp/phd/StudyMaterials/index.htm rel="nofollow"> some information</a> that may help as well. It&#8217;s a couple of years old, but it certainly helped me. It gives average GMATs, graduation rates, placement, and other useful information about each school.</p>
<p>3. Once you have a list of schools you are interested in, dive in. Find out about the professors. I signed up for RSS feeds from SSRN for prominent professors at several of my top schools. Research what the program entails: expectations, location, admission criteria, deadlines, coursework, etc. Talk to people from those schools. I had the opportunity to attend a research symposium as I began my application process. I made a point to attend presentations by people affiliated with schools I was interested in. Try to get a feel for the culture. Is it an on-your-own type school or a work-together type school? Which type of person are you? Talk to faculty at your school and ask their opinions.</p>
<p>4. Even after all is said and done, keep the list of schools that you originally made. Realize that you may be going through the same process in 5 years as you try to find your first job. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s my two cents anyway.</p>
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